The Real Difference Between Liberals And Conservatives

Totally OK to disagree (That's what sparks good discussion ;-)). I agree with you that Haidt makes a few sweeping statements, but data is about averages, and he's collected a lot of data. You have to admit that a data set of over 30,000 across many different countries and demographics that all shows the same rends is hard to ignore.

I've given this some thought and I think that we're looking at the content of this lecture a bit differently - Haidt isn't trying to say that conservatives aren't open to new experiences and travel etc. That would be a bit absurd, right? What he's saying that, in the context of the 5 moral foundations, liberals and conservatives see 3 of the 5 (Ingroup/Loyalty, Authority/Respect and Purity/Sanctity) through very
different filters/lenses, and that that difference changes how they see key social issues and how they approach those problems. Openness to experience seems to be the key personality trait, according to Haidt, that seems to be what causes that shift. Also, we shouldn't think about liberal and conservative as strictly "democrat" and "republican"...there's a lot of shades of gray and plenty of people who just consider themselves independent thinkers. There are also many libertarians out there (people who are socially liberal, but vote republican because they are fiscally conservative) Does that make sense? Just trying to shed some light on this. So I guess the first question really is...when you say your friends are "conservative" what does that mean to you?

I like that you challenged Haidt so boldly and with good reasoning based in experience. It makes for really good discussion.

Steffan, Your blog is great! I definitely agree with Haidt's statement above: "everybody has some reasons (even if you disagree with them) for doing what they’re doing...and if you can do that, that’s the essential move to cultivate moral humility, and get yourself out of this self-righteousness which is the normal human condition."

But I have to disagree (that's ok, right?) with his foundational premise that liberals crave novelty, diversity, variety, travel and new ideas; and conservatives essentially crave stability even to the point of hindering or limiting others (and I realize I'm roughly paraphrasing).

My basis for disagreement, or course, comes from my experience. I grew up a liberal in liberal Southern California, including a graphic arts education at UCLA during an extremely liberal social time. I then transitioned to a contrastingly conservative community. In addition, I have a neurological condition that has resulted over time in my development of strong analytical capabilities and test results of a true right/left brain balance.

This said, and having friendships and associations with both liberals and conservatives, I have observed that so-called conservatives as often as not, have highly inquisitive and creative minds and are open to travel and exploration. They do tend to order their lives to conform with disciplines they derive from their pursuit of knowledge. Liberals, on the other hand, have a different approach to how they pursue and order knowledge, very often relying more on a sense of social connectivity in their interpretation of the world. In an extremely broad sense (for purposes of illustration), my observations are that liberals as a group are more right brained, and conservatives more left brained.

And yet, that is not conclusive, because outward appearances of these two classifications (thus what is generally perceived) is a result of the difference in the display of emotions and social interrelationships. Meaning simply that people make judgments first on how others behave--which can be very misleading, because parental upbringing, neurological conditions, crisis, social mores, and more, can cause a person who in reality has a liberal belief system, to appear conservative (and vice versa). There are many liberal Democratic statesman/women who have conservative lifestyles, and just as many conservative Republicans who have so-called liberal lifestyles.

So, basically, I agree with only a few of Haidt's characterizations in the video, but I agree wholeheartedly with the quote at the outset of this comment. As for me, maybe because, somehow I've come to terms with both sides of my brain :), I believe that conflicts of opinion with the goal of reasoning together is absolutely essential for a person or society to achieve knowledge and sanity. The key here is the moral or social humility referred to above, along with a sense of freedom so ideas, no matter how dumb or brilliant, can be expressed, bantered about, reflected and shaped. This is how a child learns best, in a loving, nurturing environment. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could offer this same kindness to one another?

@Spin - Thanks for a really thoughtful comment. Totally OK to disagree (That's what sparks good discussion ;-)). I agree with you that Haidt makes a few sweeping statements, but data is about averages, and he's collected a lot of data. You have to admit that a data set of over 30,000 across many different countries and demographics that all shows the same trends is hard to ignore.

So here's my question to you - Drawing on the insights that Haidt shared (from a developmental psychology standpoint) that highlight that the mind isn't a blank slate at birth and that experience modifies the rough programming we're born with...I couldn't help noticing that you mentioned that you "grew up in liberal Southern California"...do you think that the environment you (and your conservative friends) grew up in had an affect on their experiential modifications of their pre-programming? I ask because you've identified them (your friends) as conservative, which assumes that "in general" they show conservative tendencies...yet you say that they lean towards openness....could that be a product of them growing up in liberal so-cal? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

I like that you challenged Haidt so boldly and with good reasoning based in experience. It makes for really good discussion.

Seffan
Looks like I didn't clarify my background too well...I mentioned: "I then transitioned to a contrastingly conservative community". That was after completing college and after living in Aspen, CO (yet another liberal community). The conservative community I mentioned is southern, yet not all in this community are conservative by political party standards. So, the "conservative" inquisitive and creative minds I refer to have origins in southern, heartland, or north eastern states. With this clarification, maybe you could re-frame your question?

Also, here are my initial, shoot from the hip, thoughts about Haidt's data collection:

Having taken graduate level courses in analytical techniques, I know something about data and averages and how questionnaires and responses can show bias based on how they are created, and how the data is collected and correlated. The personal leaning of the researcher can create subtle biases along the way. Since Haidt does tend to be somewhat charismatic, and supposing he is the one who created or influenced the testing instruments, I will probably remain cautious of his research. That's me! That is not to say I don't find it interesting. But, as I'm sure you're aware, objectively factual situations can be given variously different and opposing explanations. I just like it best when the opposing explanations are broached with courtesy and shared discovery! I think Haidt leans that way for the most part, but could perhaps use a tad bit more objectivity.

Thanks for hearing me out!

@Spin

I've given this some thought and I think that we're looking at the content of this lecture a bit differently - Haidt isn't trying to say that conservatives aren't open to new experiences and travel etc. That would be a bit absurd, right? What he's saying that, in the
context of the 5 moral foundations, liberals and conservatives see 3 of the
5 (Ingroup/Loyalty, Authoriy/Respect and Purity/Sanctity) through very
different filters/lenses, and that that difference changes how they see key
social issues and how they approach those problems. Openness to experience
seems to be the key personality trait, according to Haidt, that seems to be what
causes that shift. Also....we cant think about liberal and conservative as
"democrat" and "republican"...because there are many liberatarians out there
(people who are socially liberal, but vote republican because they are
fiscally conservative) Does that make sense? Just trying to shed some light
on this. So I guess the first question really is...when you say your friends
are "conservative" what does that mean to you?

I'm glad you gave this video some prominence, Steffan. I happened to see it a week ago and was really struck by his ideas. The TED process is a great fund of such ideas. I must admit this one challenged some of my ideas and I eventually agreed with his thesis.

@Barry - I agree with you completely. I follow the TED blog regularly
because it is such a fund of game-changing, dogma-challenging ideas. This
video in particular stuck out to me. Thanks for the comment.

you can get anything on Youtube of course :)
Steffan thanks for sharing this